Alan Lichtenstein, QPSA
December 2025 - ORPHAN MONKS – KATHMANDU, NEPAL
About the Image(s)
At the conclusion of our trip to Nepal in 2013, we ventured out of our hotel using a back exit onto a back street typical of Kathmandu not generally frequented by tourists. We came to a structure with large steel gates that when we inquired, was told that it was a monastery that doubled as an orphanage. We were allowed entry, generally otherwise restricted and were given a cook’s tour, during which we saw and met orphan youngsters who were being trained as monks. Many of the orphans approached us clasping their hands together in what we assumed was a greeting.
Gear: Olympus E-5, Zuiko 18-180 mm lens opened to 33 mm
Data: ISO 200, f 5, 1/80 sec.
Metering: Pattern
White balance: Auto
EV = -.7
Dave: November 18, 2013
7 comments posted
Well balanced and good composition. I like the way the two boys are looking into the camera. However my experience is that such kind op images are not so good working in a PSA PJD contest as its very close of a portrait even if this is allowed as not posed photo and more a moment capture. I have many such photos from Latin America and they are usually not accepted. Good job. Posted: 12/01/2025 01:09:16
I agree that it's close to the line as to whether or not it will gain an acceptance. Jen has commented on that in an earlier month and opines that posed shots are permitted in PJD, unlike PTD (now PTDD) which forbids posed images in any manner. I never entered it in PTD, because I thought the judges would have rejected it out-of-hand, but now, I am entering in PTDW, which according to the guidelines is virtually "anything goes." We'll see what happens there and also in PJD. Regardless, as an HI image, it does make the grade, but the judges always downplay HI images in favor of sports, festivals, parades and images that would make the front page of a newspaper. Anyway, thanks for the compliment. Posted: 12/01/2025 04:25:29
(Group 4)
Hello Alan, an intersting discussion about posing/ staging. My understanding is that posing is allowed in PT in the same way that PJ allows it, that the image should not change the story in the image. Thus you should not alter the clothing, activity or location you are taking the image in. The close-up rules in PTD state that any close up of a person should include some of the environment so that it is clear this is not a studio portrait. However the new PTDW, that you mention, has altered any understanding of this.
My view about your image is that while you have a lovely story behind the image that we can't see in the image. What I see is an image OF the children, not a PJ story ABOUT the children. A good way to understand this is to ask yourself the question, 'What is the story in the image?'. If your answer is that the story is about two young monks posing for a photograph, then the image would be allowed, but it would be considered a weak PJ story and would probably score low. I will be interested in how this image goes in a PTDW competition.
Not sure if this makes sense, but it is a lovely image. Posted: 12/04/2025 01:01:16
My view about your image is that while you have a lovely story behind the image that we can't see in the image. What I see is an image OF the children, not a PJ story ABOUT the children. A good way to understand this is to ask yourself the question, 'What is the story in the image?'. If your answer is that the story is about two young monks posing for a photograph, then the image would be allowed, but it would be considered a weak PJ story and would probably score low. I will be interested in how this image goes in a PTDW competition.
Not sure if this makes sense, but it is a lovely image. Posted: 12/04/2025 01:01:16
Jen, if you look at the guide for judges for PTD, you'll see that images staged for photography (which would include posed images not necessarily taken in a studio setting) are also not permitted. A prime example is the image Tom Tauber provided in the "guide" of the fishermen in a neat line on Inle lake in Burma(I prefer the traditional name) that he states were posed for photography and would not be permitted for PTD (now PTDD). The story behind the image for PJD was exactly what I stated in my description. The orphan monks approached us and offered greetings for visiting. I've entered this in a few PTDW competitions scheduled for the new year and I'm hopeful.
Thanks for you compliment about the image. Posted: 12/04/2025 05:16:43
Thanks for you compliment about the image. Posted: 12/04/2025 05:16:43
(Group 4)
Hi Alan, thank you for your response and I believe this will create a good discussion.
I think you have suggested that staging and posing are the same thing, but I believe they are different. The word 'posing' does not appear in the PTD guide. Staging involves creating a fake story, usually involving hiring or directing subjects to create a scene that is not happening in real time. This is not permitted in PJ or PTDD (but is now allowed in PTDW). Posing, on the other hand is about real people involved in real activities, and so long as you don't change the core story or activity, you can ask the subjects to look at the camera. The wording in the PTD guide states:
"....Note that a subject/s can be asked to look into the camera as long as the person/s being photographed continue on with their normal behaviour. The person being photographed should not have their dress or posture specifically managed for the purpose of obtaining a better photograph....
The same applies to Photojournalism.
Perhaps we should consider a different word than 'posing'.
Posted: 12/04/2025 13:09:33
I think you have suggested that staging and posing are the same thing, but I believe they are different. The word 'posing' does not appear in the PTD guide. Staging involves creating a fake story, usually involving hiring or directing subjects to create a scene that is not happening in real time. This is not permitted in PJ or PTDD (but is now allowed in PTDW). Posing, on the other hand is about real people involved in real activities, and so long as you don't change the core story or activity, you can ask the subjects to look at the camera. The wording in the PTD guide states:
"....Note that a subject/s can be asked to look into the camera as long as the person/s being photographed continue on with their normal behaviour. The person being photographed should not have their dress or posture specifically managed for the purpose of obtaining a better photograph....
The same applies to Photojournalism.
Perhaps we should consider a different word than 'posing'.
Posted: 12/04/2025 13:09:33
The difference between posing or staging is semantic. The effect is the same. The subjects were somehow 'arranged' for want of a better term, for photography. Don't get me wrong; I feel the more flexible interpretation for PJD (and the even more flexible interpretation of PTDW) is preferable. But at the end of the day, it's not what either you or I believe, it's what the judges interpret the guidelines to be. A story is in the perception of the viewer and transcends the physical image. What were the subjects doing and why were they doing it? Here in the image I submitted, the story was in the behavior of the orphan monks in offering traditional greetings to strangers. And everyone sees a different 'story' in an image, be it a photograph or a painting or even an abstraction of lines and colors in no apparent definite organization. And asking someone to 'look into the camera' and then in turn, have them ask you for $1, $5. or even $10 to do is, as happens many, many times if you request permission to take their picture, how do you qualify that? Isn't that 'staged for photography?' And when you pose someone, aren't you staging them for photography? Posted: 12/04/2025 14:17:50
You are contradicting yourself, I agree with some parts and disagree with others. First staging and posing is not the same but you are right, for a judge its difficult to see the difference, except if you have well known staged photos as the fisherman and the cormorants, the children playing above the waterfall and so on, you can find these examples all on the PSA website. I have many photos where I ask someone just to look away or look at the camera, but as I said before, I do not put them anymore into PJD or PTD as I know that they are very rarely accepted. In your words the photo your have posted is not eligible for PJD because the judge will think it's posed, for me no staged, but you don't make the difference and the judge can not know what was going on. I am adding one I took in September in the mountains of Colombia. A part to look at me I did not ask the boy anything, it was spontaneous, but who can know this except myself. The boy was not paid, but I have always lots of things with me for the community. Good discussion Alan and Jen. Posted: 12/05/2025 01:49:08